Are there any good installation instructions anywhere
The instructions on this board proclaim that they get it and know how important good instructions are. Then they go on to present some of the most confusing instructions I have ever seen.
First of all. What is free and what is not? First I read that 15 icons are free. Fair enough. Then I read that visual phonebook is not. So does that mean I should not install the phonebook sql database? Is phonebook the same as visual phonebook?
Going through the instructions I get step by step tarball installation. Great. Then something is cut and paste right in the middle saying if you need to install phonebook go here where it goes off on how to set up sql? Confusing instructions I might add. I get to the part where I have to edit /var/www/html/fop2/config.php
<?
// Database connection details
$DBHOST = 'localhost';
$DBNAME = 'fop2';
$DBUSER = 'fop2';
$DBPASS = 'myPassw0rd';
$language="en";
Problem is that on my file that was installed using THESE instructions. $DBUSER = 'root';
So do I change it to fop2 even though the instructions do not say so.
If you want to sell this thing you should take your own advice and provide decent instructions. Don't even get me started on the FreePBX integration instructions. They are no where to be found in the "How to install" area. Found them in the FAQ area and they are wrong. Server status Op Panel is not integrated and still shows a warning indicator after instructions.
And after all this frustration. I cannot get the FOP2 to work properly. Cannot log in and when I finally figured out how to get that working (on my own by installing fop2admin module for freepbx because the instructions do not explain how that is necessary to create accounts for logging in) so then I finally get the FOP2 page. Great. Just one problem. Doesn't work. Busy extension does not show up as busy and phonebook giving an error message.
This is nuts.
First of all. What is free and what is not? First I read that 15 icons are free. Fair enough. Then I read that visual phonebook is not. So does that mean I should not install the phonebook sql database? Is phonebook the same as visual phonebook?
Going through the instructions I get step by step tarball installation. Great. Then something is cut and paste right in the middle saying if you need to install phonebook go here where it goes off on how to set up sql? Confusing instructions I might add. I get to the part where I have to edit /var/www/html/fop2/config.php
<?
// Database connection details
$DBHOST = 'localhost';
$DBNAME = 'fop2';
$DBUSER = 'fop2';
$DBPASS = 'myPassw0rd';
$language="en";
Problem is that on my file that was installed using THESE instructions. $DBUSER = 'root';
So do I change it to fop2 even though the instructions do not say so.
If you want to sell this thing you should take your own advice and provide decent instructions. Don't even get me started on the FreePBX integration instructions. They are no where to be found in the "How to install" area. Found them in the FAQ area and they are wrong. Server status Op Panel is not integrated and still shows a warning indicator after instructions.
And after all this frustration. I cannot get the FOP2 to work properly. Cannot log in and when I finally figured out how to get that working (on my own by installing fop2admin module for freepbx because the instructions do not explain how that is necessary to create accounts for logging in) so then I finally get the FOP2 page. Great. Just one problem. Doesn't work. Busy extension does not show up as busy and phonebook giving an error message.
This is nuts.
Comments
Where did you read that the visual phonebook is not free? WHERE? Anyways, your angle is wrong: if you are looking for a totally free product, please use FOP1. Do not waste your time with FOP2.
You might also be accustomed to step by step guides in one page. As this software is not that simple, and asterisk is not that simple either and they have to work together, there is not one page step by step guide.
Following the instructions you have RIGHT NOW in the documentation will lead to a totally working implementation, but you have to read several pages, sorry. And it might not be apparent to you, but the reason the visual phonebook instructions are on a different section is because there are actually two components in fop2, one is the server/backend, and the other the web application. The visual phonebook is part of the web application, and installation instructions for setting it up are in its corresponding section. Perhaps it would be less confusing to you if I put the visual phonebook link at the end of the server configuration part.
You know, originally the phonebook was not mentioned in the installing for tarball section, but many users did not realize that there were more instructions for the web application itself, and then had troubles with the visual phonebook not working because they did not setup the database nor the config.php file. There is also a BIG YELLOW NOTE/WARNING talking about the phonebook/mysql setup that it seems you missed or failed to understand.
You also have some guides created by fellow users, there are several and you can find links on this very same forum. Guides differ slitghtly from distro to distro. If the instructions you have here are so confusing or bad, you are welcome to write your own configuration guide and post the link in the forum so other users can benefit for it.
Instead of whining, you can give some constructive criticism or just help me improving the documentation or write a great install guide for newbies.
Mysql setup cannot be textually included in ANY GUIDE, because mysql requires credentials that are going to be different in EVERY SETUP. Anyways, the phonebook instructions are VERY clear. It does say what you might do or not.. that you MIGHT create a fop2 users in mysql, and you MUST put correct mysql credentials in config.php. Do not expect the supplied config.php to work if the manual says that you MUST PUT VALID MYSQL CREDENTIALS into it, and that you MIGHT CREATE A FOP2 USERS IN MYSQL. (as a security measure, it is not good to use the mysql root user, but it is better to create a special user to connect to the fop2 database with just the right amount of permissions).
It is true, set up a mysql database require a little bit of knowledge on mysql itself. The guide tells you how to setup a fop2 user in mysql, if you MIGHT want to set it up. But you are not obliged to do so, you can use the mysql root user and skip one step. It is your choice. And the verbs are clear.
In any case, the phonebook is almost non relevant to fop2 itself. You can have a fully working fop2 without the phonebook. In the Elastix RPM we are working on the visual phonebook is disabled as it is integrated with the Elastix one.
fop2admin is not mandatory, that is why it does not say it is necessary, because it is not. But installing makes a lot of sense if you use freepbx.
If you are in a point where you can login but you do not see status, that is great! but if you do not see status is probably because your manager credentails or permissions are wrong. You can test them, as instructed here http://www.fop2.com/documentation-insta ... arball.php, with the command:
You can also try to catch me on the live help and I will be glad to help you out, as I always do with every user, paid or free (but I am not available all the time). Or, if you value your time and do not want to fight over manuals, you can also pay for the installation service.
Fortunately this *thing* sells pretty well. Once you pass/grasp the implementation details it really does work and very well. Do not take my word for it.
There is already an rpm you can download/install for the FreePBX Distro, and there will be another one for Elastix. The RPM will do all the work for you. Perhaps you might want to try them out.
However, I'm feeling less cordial now that you have gotten defensive about it. Not once do you give any hint that perhaps, maybe...just maybe the instructions could be improved just a bit. The very first thing I read on your site was how you "get it" that good documentation is very important. I'm here to tell you that I don't think you do.
Then you downshifted to the standard argument that I am ungrateful because you are providing something free. Well I have used FOP1 for years and not once complained about it's shortcomings. FOP2 is clearly designed to encourage people to buy it. You clearly make a point that a big selling feature is good documentation. So I feel that constructive cristicism is appropriate for this product.
Anyways. Got it working by ignoring all the phonebook stuff. I don't need that. IMHO you should treat it as a totally separate product. Also, the instructions could be improved quite a bit. Granted, you are dealing with a moving target such as the new GUI settings in FreePBX. So it requires more effort.
So I think you need to decide if you really do "get it" how important good documentation is. Walk the talk or remove that statement.
Hmm.. what about this sentence?
"Perhaps it would be less confusing to you if I put the visual phonebook link at the end of the server configuration part. "
I was not defensive, I just wanted, as you suggest constructive criticism. Your post is not even near a constructive critic. It is a big whining because you were frustated for not getting it to work, it seems you did not ask for help in the forum, nor on the live chat, and wanted to ventilate your frustration directly. It seems you did not even search in the forums for many decent installation guides written by users that are probably better at doing so than myself.
I feel the same, but to me a constructive criticism is to suggest how to improve things, not cry out loud, saying "this is nuts", etc. I am not pushing you to buy anything, I am saying that you have paid options to get things installed/working if you cannot figure it out. And I also said that I always provide support, free support, to paid or not paid users. You did not ask for help, you just complain, in a public forum.
I welcome constructive criticism, yours is not.
Perhaps you must re read your first post, and re read the documentation. You said that the docs do not say if you have to change the database credentials or not, and it says you MUST do it, but you are confused because the sample config has the "root" user with no password, and the documentation suggest that you (MIGHT) want to create a new user for mysql, grant permissions, and use that. Is that confusing? Not to me, perhaps I am too technical and it is indeed confusing? And I say again, saying that in fact the documentation can be improved a bit, perhaps the link about the phonebook configuration should be put at the end of the install from tarball section, because it seems that having it in the middle lead you to a completely new section on the install file (the web client configuration).
If you thing the documentation is bad, please suggest HOW to fix it. That is constructive criticism.
Best regards,
As I said, by ignoring the phonebook stuff it simplified the install and made things less confusing. By trying to shoe horn in this visual phonebook of yours (I'm assuming you realize FreePBX already has 2 or 3 different phonebook modules) you are confusing things. It wouldn't hurt to make a little MySQL config script for that phonebook application but that is neither here nor there.
Lastly, this cannot be fully integrated into FreePBX because the status page still shows FOP1 even with the apache alias. If I disable the FOP1 application it gives this constant warning. If I leave it on and change the port then I have an unnecessary application running. It's just an indicator but that was the very first thing the customer noticed. So while it many not seem like a big deal to us techies it is to end users. They don't like seeing warning messages with yellow indicators.
Of course I could just alter the FreePBX code but you know as well as I do that is a terrible solution. Eventually a FreePBX update will re-write it.
FreePBX has a phonebook, but it is stored in ASTDB. It is unusable in a real time application like fop2. In fop2 dial box, you can type some letters and it will background search the phonebook and show results. fop2 also searchs for the caller id number on inbound calls to display the name and picture of the person calling in a popup notification. That is impossible to do with astdb and the FreePBX phonebook.
FOP2 is a standalone application, and it is a different application from FOP. It is not an upgrade, it is a different software. (you can have both fop1 and fop2 running) and for that reason the FreePBX module that checks if fop is running is not even mentioned in the documentation. As the fop2 installation should not modify anything in FreePBX itself. The same way the amportal script is being used to start-stop asterisk-fop2. I have never ever recommended to modify FreePBX to handle fop2 instead of fop1, because as you say it is probably for the worst, as any update you do on freepbx will break things again. The apache alias is a way to make FreePBX links point to fop2 without modifying freepbx itself, and it works pretty well too.
My initial recommendation for users was to change FOP1 port so you can install and let FOP2 run without modifications. You will end up with both versions running. The problem is that when you update the freepbx fop2 framework, the fop1 configuration that must be changed for modifying the listen port is overwritten. That leads to a problem when you update freepbx, as fop2 will fail to start after that update. It is easy to fix, but it is a problem that many users had. That is why my recommendation now is to DISABLE fop1 altogether. Set FOPRUN=false in /etc/amportal.conf for FreePBX 2.8 or lower, or disable it via web settings in FreePBX 2.9. If FreePBX monitor module is broken because it wants fop1 running all the time, it is a freepbx problem, not a fop2 problem.
In any case, when I talk about FreePBX integration I mean:
1) buttons auto configure themselves, you do not have to configure buttons manually.
2) you can use the fop2admin module to change user permissions, passwords, button preferences, etc.
3) By means of extensions_override_freepbx.conf, the DND feature code in FreePBX is reflected in fop2 presence state, and viceversa.
4) Call Forwarding is also displayed in FOP2 buttons.
So, I consider ALL of that to be a really tight integration with FreePBX, *without* messing with FreePBX itself.
The Elastix version of fop2 will be using the phonebook from Elastix. The FreePBX rpm version for fop2 will still use the visual phonebook due to the limitations of the native freePBX phonebook.
Hopefully the .rpm version both for Elastix and the FreePBX distro will be finished soon, and installation will be really easy using that method. It even creates the needed tables for you.
If you have a suggestion on how to improve the documentation , to make it less confusing, please, by all means, point me in the right direction or give me some advice. I am always open to suggestions.
Sin querer entrar en una polémica mayor tengo que coincidir con el autor de este post, no sólo con el FOP2, también con el Asternic.
Con el FOP seguí todas las instrucciones, paso a paso, como no funcionaba busqué información adicional para los temas de conflicto, tanto en este site como en otros, me comí todas las FAQs, los posts del foro, finalmente conseguí que todo quede funcionando pero no puedo conectarme al server. Me pasa exactamente lo mismo que a rickygm, que hizo otro post, cuya descripción es idéntica a la que tenía preparada, me ahorró todo el trabajo.
Con Asternic (no sé si aplica a este post) pasé por lo mismo, todo fue bien hasta que quise aplicar la última instrucción, ahí me dio error y por supuesto ni siquiera pude ingresar a la página.
Los manuales no sólo deberían considerar múltiples posibilidades, como en algunas instrucciones sí considera, sino que deberían ser también APB (los extranjeros seguramente no entenderán esta expresión).
Lo mío no pasa ni por Linux ni mucho menos Asterisk, pero, digamos, tengo cierta facilidad para estos menesteres, y no puede ser que no deje algo funcionando con buenas instrucciones.
Seguramente los llamaré para contratar la consultoría, los productos aparentan ser buenos y suplen una falencia de Asterisk. Es más, casi los considero imprescindibles, pero lamentablemente no pude probarlos.
Saludos.
Hola,
Gracias por tus comentarios. Cualquier sugerencia o guia para instalación es bienvenida, de hecho hay varias guias paso a paso que no hemos escrito nosotros, y que están libremente disponibles en la web, específicas para algunas distribuciones.
Te recomiendo que revises esas guías que quizás te resultan más simples, ninguna fue escrita por nosotros sino que fueron contribuciones de usuarios:
Elastix[/url:1fzgdwa7]
Trixbox[/url:1fzgdwa7]
PBX In a Flash[/url:1fzgdwa7]
Seguramente hay otras. Y también podés consultar la ayuda en línea, que para eso está. No hay que tener vergüenza de pedir ayuda si la necesitás.
El problema con FOP2 es que es un software complicado al tener varios componentes, esto ya lo expliqué en este post. Es imposible en ningún manual poder describir todas las posibles configuraciones de una red del cliente y máquina de escritorio. Hay muchas variantes. Pero aunque no lo creas, para cada uno de los potenciales problemas hay un FAQ o un post en el foro, o está señalado en la documentación. Si no lo hay , solo podremos actualizarlo trabajando con los usuarios en la resolución de esos problemas.
Me pasa *muchas* veces que luego de varios posts en el foro por problemas como el de rickgm, me contactan por la ayuda en línea, me pasan el URL del panel, y desde mi equipo PUEDO CONECTAR SIN PROBLEMAS! No hay guía que pueda ayudar en esos casos, pues toda la configuración se hizo correctamente y de hecho el software funciona correctamente, pero el equipo del cliente, el navegador del cliente, o la red del cliente no. Haciendo una analogía con Asterisk, es como si tuvieras todo el asterisk instalado y configurado correctamente, pero con un teléfono que anda mal o está mal configurado o está atrás de un firewall y los puertos no están bien configurados. Es posible en el manual de Asterisk poner las configuraciones posibles de todos los teléfonos/redes? No.
No estoy diciendo que la documentación no pueda mejorarse, seguro que se puede. Pero tampoco creo que la documentación sea mala, confusa ni incompleta como sugiere este post. Justamente al ser *larga* es dificil de seguir. Por eso quizás las guías de instalación te puedan ayudar.
Hay varias otras guías alternativas de Asternic también en línea y escritas por usuarios, no por nosotros. En google se encuentran facilmente.
Me encantaría ayudarte, podés contarme en Asternic cual fue el error que te dio el último comando? Sin saber ese error, no puedo ayudarte, ni mejorar la documentación. Lo mismo para el FOP2.
Es muy probable que la documentación de cosas "por sentado", como el conocimiento del sistema de autenticación de usuarios de Mysql. Es mi preferencia personal dejar las opciones abiertas en la documentación, en lugar de dirigir de la nariz al usuario copiando comandos sin pensarlos o entenderlos, quizás esto sea un error. Si pongo que un posible comando a ingresar es:
mysql -u root -p qstats < /ruta/al/archivo/mysql.sql
Espero que el usuario no entre en pánico cuando se le pregunte la clave root de mysql (y que sepa la clave!), y que sea capaz de cambiar /ruta/al/archivo por la ruta correcta dependiendo de donde haya descargado y descomprimido el software. Muchas veces el usuario no sabe la clave, es culpa de la documentación? O pone mal la ruta del archivo. Como puedo documentar una clave que no se? Lo mismo con las rutas de descarga. No siempre es sencillo, y casi siempre se requiere de cierto conocimiento/bagage o colaboración por parte del usuario.
Te invito a que me contactes via la ayuda en línea o email y me detalles tus problemas lo mejor posible para que pueda darte una solución. Seguramente es algo simple que se pasó por alto, generalmente sucede esto.
O bien hacer un post con un detalle de tu problema, luego trabajamos en la solución y podremos editar el post y poner la solución, para que otros usuarios se beneficien de tu experiencia. Y si encontrás errores en la documentación, por favor decime cuál es el error así lo corregimos.
Thanks for letting us know.
Best regards,
Lo único que me falta es ajustar unos pequeños detalles y comprarlo, mañana me comunico telefónicamente.
Gracias por todo.